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 Machimini (Tolmerus?) from Lesvos, Greece - id help
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 18-11-2023 15:32
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Hi, I have some specimens (mostly females, but 1 male, too) of Machimini from the Greek island of Lesvos that I am trying to identify, all collected relatively late in season (from the ends of July up to the first weeks of October). Currently, based on the characters of the females, I tend towards Tolmerus for a generic identification, but can't move any further. Below, I provide some photos of 2 females and the single male (I haven't extracted the genitalia yet). A striking character that I believe may be of taxonomic value is the fact that all or almost all the macrochaetae of this species are blond/white. I don't expect much (especially knowing that Machimus/Tolmerus is a taxonomic mess, with outdated keys and in urgent need of revision), but I'd like to hear your opinions on matters of the genus and/or possible species. Thanks! Edited by Xeroporcellio on 19-11-2023 13:45 |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 18-11-2023 15:32
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
The male. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 18-11-2023 15:33
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
A living female. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 18-11-2023 15:33
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
A dead female (better view of the ovipositor). |
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| JWV |
Posted on 18-11-2023 21:43
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Member Location: Posts: 100 Joined: 16.12.22 |
Hi, Again beautiful specimens! It's a shame that I cannot be of any help but I totally agree that someone should make a revision of these genera! Have you tried the Turkish key to some Machimini by Başar, M., & Kekillioğlu, A. (2018)? Best, Jonne |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 19-11-2023 01:11
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Member Location: Posts: 776 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Hello, I have the whole literature from Greece. If you have a checklist of the Tolmerus species what live there, than I can compare the specimen’s data with the original descriptions and keys. Besides this, you should try to dissect the gonostylus from the specimen, and take a good picture of it under a microscope and then upload it here. These Tolmerus species are really hard to identify, females commonly completely impossible. All the best, Nimród Edited by varganimrod on 19-11-2023 01:24 |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 19-11-2023 13:49
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
JWV wrote: Hi, Again beautiful specimens! It's a shame that I cannot be of any help but I totally agree that someone should make a revision of these genera! Have you tried the Turkish key to some Machimini by Başar, M., & Kekillioğlu, A. (2018)? Best, Jonne Thanks a lot for the replies! I don't think that i have this particular paper in my archive! In fact, currently, I am unable to locate it without at least the title. Would you mind writing the full reference (authors, title, journal), so I can locate it? |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 19-11-2023 13:54
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
varganimrod wrote: Hello, I have the whole literature from Greece. If you have a checklist of the Tolmerus species what live there, than I can compare the specimen’s data with the original descriptions and keys. Besides this, you should try to dissect the gonostylus from the specimen, and take a good picture of it under a microscope and then upload it here. These Tolmerus species are really hard to identify, females commonly completely impossible. All the best, Nimród Thanks a lot for the reply! I will definitely extract the genitalia using KOH at some point (for both this Tolmerus and the Saropogon) and, of course, upload them here! However, it will take some time till then, as first I have to examine a considerable number of Muscoidea and Tachinidae specimens (around 100) from the collection of my colleague... However, in the meanwhile, I will compile a list of all the Graeco-Turkish species of Machimus/Tolmerus that I can find and upload it here, so as you can check the specimens against the literature. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 19-11-2023 18:11
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Below, I provide a list with all the Machimus/Tolmerus species I managed to find that occur in Greece (bold) and surrounding regions (Asia Minor, Balkans, Caucasus and Middle East). I added these regions too, because, what I usually see when examining Diptera specimens from Lesvos island is that they consist a "mix" with prevelant Caucaso-Levant elements and a few European ones. Also, I noted that I miss Becker's 1923 monograph from my archive, which contains a lot of Turko-Levant species (Engel omits all of Becker's species from his work). As such, it is very possible that if these specimens belong to a known species, it may be one described in this work! Machimus annulipes (Brullé, 1832) (Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Turkey, Israel) Machimus aradensis Theodor, 1980 (Israel) Machimus araxanus Richter, 1963 (Caucasus) Machimus aridus Lehr, 1999 (European Russia) Machimus armeniacus Richter, 1963 (Caucasus) Machimus armipes Becker in Becker & Stein, 1913 (Central Asia, Iran) Machimus arthriticus (Zeller, 1840) (Europe) Machimus biljici Adamovic, 1959 (Yugoslavia) Machimus caliginosus (Meigen, 1820) (Central & Eastern Europe, Turkey) Machimus chaldaeus Janssens, 1961 (Iraq) Machimus chrysitis (Meigen, 1820) (Eastern Europe) Machimus cinerarius (Pallas in Wiedemann, 1818) (European Russia) Machimus cyanopus (Loew, 1849) (Central & Eastern Europe, Turkey) Machimus decipiens Theodor, 1980 (Syria) Machimus dubiosus Becker, 1923 (Yugoslavia, Greece) Machimus elegans (Loew, 1849) (Turkey, Iran) Machimus erevanensis Richter, 1963 (Caucasus) Machimus fimbriatus (Meigen, 1804) (North Africa, Europe, Turkey) Machimus funebris Theodor, 1980 (Israel) Machimus gonatistes (Zeller, 1840) (Europe, North Africa) Machimus gratiosus Loew, 1871 (Turkey, Iran) Machimus hierosolymae Theodor, 1980 (Israel) Machimus krueperi Becker, 1923 (Greece) Machimus largus Richter, 1963 (Caucasus) Machimus leucocephalus Janssens, 1968 (Greece, Turkey) Machimus modestus (Loew, 1849) (Eastern Europe, Turkey, Iran) Machimus mystacinus Becker, 1923 (Turkey) Machimus nahalalensis Theodor, 1980 (Israel) Machimus negevensis Theodor, 1980 (Israel) Machimus rudis Becker, 1923 (Turkey, Iran) Machimus rusticus (Meigen, 1820) (Europe, North Africa, Turkey) Machimus sanctimontis Janssens, 1960 (Greece) Machimus sareptanus Becker, 1923 (Russia, Turkey) Machimus setibarbus (Loew, 1849) (Europe, North Africa, Middle East) Machimus thoracius (Loew, 1849) (Hungary?, Turkey, Iran) Tolmerus angustifrons (Loew, 1849) (Turkey) Tolmerus atripes Loew, 1854 (Europe, Turkey) Tolmerus bolgaricus Lehr, 1981 (Bulgaria) Tolmerus cingulatus (Fabricius, 1781) (Europe, Turkey, Iran) Tolmerus costalis (Theodor, 1980) (Israel) Tolmerus facialis Becker in Becker & Stein, 1913 (Iran) Tolmerus fuscus (Macquart, 1839) (Russia, Turkey) Tolmerus hermonensis Theodor, 1980 (Syria) Tolmerus illucens Becker, 1923 (Syria) Tolmerus lesinensis Palm, 1876 (Italy, Balkans) Tolmerus paganus Becker, 1923 (Russia, Turkey) Tolmerus pauper Becker, 1923 (Russia, Greece) Tolmerus poecilogaster (Loew, 1849) (Central & Eastern Europe) Tolmerus pyragra (Zeller, 1840) (Europe) Tolmerus richterae Lehr, 1981 (Caucasus) Tolmerus rufostriatus (Theodor, 1980) (Israel) Tolmerus strymonicus (Tsacas, 1960) (Bulgaria, Greece) Tolmerus tesselatus (Loew, 1849) (Italy, Russia, Turkey) Tolmerus tivonensis Theodor, 1980 (Turkey, Israel) Tolmerus ventriculus Becker, 1923 (Greece) |
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| JWV |
Posted on 19-11-2023 22:43
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Member Location: Posts: 100 Joined: 16.12.22 |
Xeroporcellio wrote: Thanks a lot for the replies! I don't think that i have this particular paper in my archive! In fact, currently, I am unable to locate it without at least the title. Would you mind writing the full reference (authors, title, journal), so I can locate it? Hi, Thanks for compiling this list of Machimini species! That's just an enormous amount! I think this link would work for the Turkish paper https://avesis.ga...ndirilmesi Best, Jonne |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 21-11-2023 08:49
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Member Location: Posts: 776 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Hello, As soon as possible I will check the original descriptions of species. All the best, Nimród |
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| varganimrod |
Posted on 23-11-2023 20:40
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Member Location: Posts: 776 Joined: 11.10.22 |
Could you please write down the size of your specimen?
Edited by varganimrod on 23-11-2023 20:40 |
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| Danny Wolff |
Posted on 24-11-2023 06:50
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 Member Location: Posts: 327 Joined: 27.05.04 |
I don't say that these specimens are Neoepitriptus sp., but they remind me much of this genus, because of the bristles on femur 1, the quite strong bristles on the abdominal sternites in low numbers, and the general habitus and colour. Best regards, Danny Wolff, Gebel & Geller-Grimm (2018): Die Raubfliegen Deutschlands (The robberflies of Germany) https://www.human...LLER-GRIMM |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 30-11-2023 18:01
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
varganimrod wrote: Could you please write down the size of your specimen? The male has a length of 18-19 mm. The females that I have are slightly smaller or equal in length (17-18 mm). |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 30-11-2023 18:04
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Danny Wolff wrote: I don't say that these specimens are Neoepitriptus sp., but they remind me much of this genus, because of the bristles on femur 1, the quite strong bristles on the abdominal sternites in low numbers, and the general habitus and colour. Best regards, Danny Thanks a lot for the suggestion! In fact, you may be right and they indeed belong to Neoepitriptus (initially, I had forgotten of this genus)! I will check the possible Graeco-Turkish species for it and return here if I find something! |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 06-12-2023 19:38
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
UPDATE: I checked the third possible genus that was merged with Machimus/Tolmerus in the past (Neoepitriptus) and indeed is the correct one (spines on front femurs + lack of extension on 8th sternite are considered characters of this genus)! On top of that, I checked the two available keys for the species that I have (Die Fliegen and Asilidae of France) and in both it turned out being N. incostans, a species widespread in the Mediterranean and present in Greece (the white bristles and hairs were indeed a diagnostic character)! Below, I provide some photos of the external genitalia, which also matched perfectly the avilable figures and descriptions, both in shape and colorations. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 06-12-2023 19:38
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Genitalia lateral. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 06-12-2023 19:38
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Dorsal. |
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| Xeroporcellio |
Posted on 06-12-2023 19:39
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Member Location: Posts: 181 Joined: 27.05.21 |
Ventral. |
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| Wojciech Szczepanski |
Posted on 11-12-2023 23:56
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Member Location: Posts: 15 Joined: 01.05.23 |
Could you take a lateral photo of facial gibbosity? It looks rather small, not typical to Neoepitriptus and Machimus/Tolmerus. |
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but don't see the image in the post.
