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 Sarcophaga africa ?
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| zcuc |
Posted on 06-12-2007 10:15
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
10mm, Israel. It has plumose hind tibia and red marking on tip of abdomen Edited by zcuc on 07-12-2007 13:06 |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 06-12-2007 10:16
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
and lateral view |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 06-12-2007 20:27
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 Member Location: Posts: 7168 Joined: 19.11.04 |
I'd say this was Sarcophaga africa but you may have other, related species in Israel - best to check against genitalia figures
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 07-12-2007 13:13
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Thanks Tony, I'm just an amateur and had never tried to extract fly genitalia. Maybe I can try and post the image of the genitalia here? Do you know of any good referace of how to do it? |
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| Andy Chick |
Posted on 07-12-2007 13:33
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Member Location: Posts: 58 Joined: 30.11.07 |
pape 1987 gives the procedure. |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 07-12-2007 14:54
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Thanks for the advice Andy but I don't have this book, do you know of any internet article? |
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| conopid |
Posted on 07-12-2007 16:53
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 Member Location: Posts: 1039 Joined: 02.07.04 |
Hi There is some good advice here: http://www.zmuc.dk/entoweb/sarcoweb/sarcweb/collect/Collect.htm Nigel Jones, Shrewsbury, United Kingdom |
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| crex |
Posted on 07-12-2007 16:55
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 Member Location: Posts: 1996 Joined: 22.05.06 |
Clickable  |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 07-12-2007 20:58
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Member Location: Posts: 7168 Joined: 19.11.04 |
I use the technique that Thomas Pape describes, but I side-pin my Sarcophaga with big minuten (if you know what I mean ). The technque involves placing one minuten against the top of the abdomen, just in front of the genital segments. A second pin is then used to pull out the claspers. This usually results in the aedeagus being exposed as well, but occasionally it gets "jammed", and needs to be released gently with another pin. Often it is easier to exsert the claspers with a mounted minuten or fine needle, rather than holding one in forceps. The minuten are not pushed through the genitalia - just beside them to hold them in place until the fly is dry. Take great care when extracting the pins - it's really sad if the penis breaks off!  If you have collected a specimen without exserting the genitalia, it is sometimes possible to relax them with Barber's Fluid, so they can be prised open later, but it is much easier to exsert genitalia before the fly has dried. Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 07-12-2007 23:32
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Well this is my first try I managed to pull the genitalia from the abdomen(1) but it seem to be coverd by thin dark membrane(2) how can I remove this part? should I just torn it? |
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| Zeegers |
Posted on 08-12-2007 10:17
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Member Location: Posts: 18446 Joined: 21.07.04 |
You are looking too high. The orange bulb should be retracted at the ventral side from the abdomen. Theo |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:14
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Here a ventral view before I starter to poke with my needle. |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:28
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Now for the second try: I inserted the pin at the ventral side of the abdomen and tried to push it. It was torn with the black membrane(2), that seem to be attached fairly good to the genitalia. Now I have two question: 1. Does anyone has genetalia reference book of Sarcophaga africa which could be compared to my images? 2. What went wrong? does anyone have a photo of well extracted genetalia of Sarcophaga so I could compare? Thanks |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 08-12-2007 12:41
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 Member Location: Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
OK, now put the separated part in warm water with a drop of detergent for 15 minutes (or more) to soften it up a bit. Then you can remove the black tergites to expose the hidden cerci, surstyli etc. which are on the ventral side, in rest position hidden below the V-shaped 5th sternite.
Kahis |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 08-12-2007 14:00
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Member Location: Posts: 7168 Joined: 19.11.04 |
You should find bits looking something like this.
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 08-12-2007 16:03
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
I soak it inside warm water and removed the black tergites, but couldn't find any cerci? kahis you said it should be on the ventral side, but according to the link in this post I'd exctracted the genitalia with one needle on ventral side and one on dorsal side. so maybe the cerci were ruin? Was it suppose to be in the green circle? |
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| Kahis |
Posted on 08-12-2007 17:09
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Member Location: Posts: 1999 Joined: 02.09.04 |
 Definitely the correct genus at least. Looks very similar... Edited by Kahis on 08-12-2007 17:17 Kahis |
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| Susan R Walter |
Posted on 08-12-2007 18:24
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 Member Location: Posts: 1794 Joined: 14.01.06 |
Very nice thread. Informative and productive. Many thanks to Zcuc, Tony and Kahis for going through this online.
Susan |
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| zcuc |
Posted on 08-12-2007 19:44
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Member Location: Posts: 492 Joined: 08.10.07 |
Wow, It was under my noise and I couldn't see it Thought those black spike are left over of the black tergites. Too bad my poor Lupa is too weak so I'm unable to get a real closeup to verify against the drawing. Tony is it possible to get id from this bad genitalia image or does this genus has many similar genitalia? Many thanks to all of you for helping, Hope I'll improved next time. |
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| Tony Irwin |
Posted on 08-12-2007 20:46
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Member Location: Posts: 7168 Joined: 19.11.04 |
As Kahis says, it's certainly Sarcophaga subgenus Bercaea. My feeling is that the genitalia are close enough to be S. africa. There are minor differences to the africa I've seen, but that's not surprising. Although they are the best way to tell species apart, it's worth remembering that the genitalia can vary a bit. The skill is to know how much variation is "permissible"! I don't know of any other Bercaea in Israel - so I think it is safe to call this Sarcophaga (Bercaea) africa.
Tony ---------- Tony Irwin |
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