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 Dipter unknown... please help me on ID.
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 07-06-2006 18:19
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 Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
http://www.flickr...162469102/ The photo was taken a few moments ago in Valega (35 km South of Oporto and very near of portuguese coast) - PORTUGAL Thank you! Jorge Almeida Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 07-06-2006 18:25 |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 07-06-2006 18:57
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 Administrator Location: Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
That looks like an ichneumon - order Hymenoptera  |
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| Xespok |
Posted on 07-06-2006 19:09
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 Member Location: Posts: 5550 Joined: 02.03.05 |
Ichenumonidae, Hymenoptera, but not Ichneumon or Ichneumoninae I think. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-06-2006 00:37
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Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Xespok wrote: Ichenumonidae, Hymenoptera, but not Ichneumon or Ichneumoninae I think. So what could it be? Possible genus... can you know just with the photographic information available? Thank you. |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 08-06-2006 08:33
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Administrator Location: Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
Well, this photo looks very like a specimen I have labelled here as Amblyjoppa fuscipennis (Order Hymenoptera, Family Ichneumonidae), which I believe in England is a fairly distinctive species. BUT ( and this is a very, very big 'but' ) this identification carries a very big warning: Parasitic Hymenoptera (which includes the Ichneumonidae) are a very large group with many very similar species, identifiable only using complex keys and a good microscope. So, use this identification with caution - especially considering how far away from England you are  Amblyjoppa fuscipennis is apparently a parasitoid of Small Elephant Hawkmoth (Deilephila porcellus) Edited by ChrisR on 08-06-2006 08:37 |
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| Robert Nash |
Posted on 08-06-2006 09:29
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Member Location: Posts: 288 Joined: 11.11.05 |
My Amblyjoppa fuscipennis is very similar to the pic but has black femora and entirely pale tibia whereas these are banded. I only have a female and this may be a sex difference. Amblyjoppa attentatoria (Kuzin 1950) from Russia only seems unlikely and I have no idea what it looks like.The only other Western Palaearctic species of this (so far as I know too) distictive genus is Amblyjoppa proteus' It is mostly black. Complex keys indeed Impossible without specimens.How big was it Mine is about 2cmm long. Robert Nice ich nice photo |
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| cthirion |
Posted on 08-06-2006 10:19
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Member Location: Posts: 901 Joined: 13.08.04 |
Photo Ichneumon abdomen red and tibiae 3X banded with white= no Ichneumoninae for my! Wings very dark, and species very large (2cm minimun ): A. fuscipennis! cthirion |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-06-2006 10:41
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Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Robert Nash wrote: My Amblyjoppa fuscipennis is very similar to the pic but has black femora and entirely pale tibia whereas these are banded. I only have a female and this may be a sex difference. Amblyjoppa attentatoria (Kuzin 1950) from Russia only seems unlikely and I have no idea what it looks like.The only other Western Palaearctic species of this (so far as I know too) distictive genus is Amblyjoppa proteus' It is mostly black. Complex keys indeed Impossible without specimens.How big was it Mine is about 2cmm long. Robert Nice ich nice photo Just a little more than 1 cm. So there is yet doubts, some says Amblyjoppa others says it is not Ichnomeinae... Come on with more opinions, please. Thank you. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 08-06-2006 11:16
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Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
cthirion wrote: Photo Ichneumon abdomen red and tibiae 3X banded with white= no Ichneumoninae for my! Wings very dark, and species very large (2cm minimun ): A. fuscipennis! So what do you think that Ichneumonidae could be? Another question: is any site with some images and key who can help us for a try? At least for determining genus. Thank you. |
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| ChrisR |
Posted on 08-06-2006 16:22
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Administrator Location: Posts: 7699 Joined: 12.07.04 |
I think there is a little confusion here - a few Ich* words have been used, which you might not be familiar with: * Ichneumonoidea = a superfamily * Ichneumonidae = a family * Ichneumoninae = a subfamily * Ichneumonini = a tribe * Ichneumon = a genus So, genus Amblyjoppa is in: superfamily Ichneumonoidea; family Ichneumonidae; subfamily Ichneumoninae. But NOT tribe Ichneumonini and certainly not genus Ichneumon. Amblyjoppa (in my books) is actually in tribe Protichneumonini. As for online keys, that is very very unlikely. Most of the keys to the parasitic hymenoptera are very old, very out of date and were published many years ago - though you can still find them if you go to a good entomological library. But remember you must spend a long time keying a specimen through before you'll get an identification.  You might be able to find some images out on the web (though I couldn't find any) but, as I said before, there are very many species that look similar so images are a very bad way to identify most parasitic hymenoptera. Sorry to sound so pesimistic but I have done a fair bit of work with parasitic hymenoptera and I know they are one of the hardest groups for a beginner to get in to. 
Edited by ChrisR on 08-06-2006 16:23 |
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| cthirion |
Posted on 08-06-2006 22:13
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Member Location: Posts: 901 Joined: 13.08.04 |
The family is d?termined with wing : form areola is required, The petiole, view lateral is required, for one first sorting! Very sorry! cthirion |
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