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 Lauxaniidae: Mesiosimyza or Lyciella?
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| Asilus |
Posted on 18-11-2009 14:08
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 Member Location: Posts: 65 Joined: 14.09.05 |
Is the valid name of Lyciella Collin, 1948 Meiosimyza Hendel, 1925, as according to Shatalkin, A.I. 1995, or is Lyciella still the valid name? I am confused. |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 18-11-2009 14:30
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 Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
AFAIK the consensus is Meiosimyza but not everybody seems to agree. Perhaps Katka can elaborate on this...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 18-11-2009 15:15
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 Member Location: Posts: 5242 Joined: 17.07.08 |
Hi Katka still uses the name Lyciella...http://diptera.in...d_id=25834. I recently had my Checklist updated by Phil Withers and my L.rorida was altered to M.rorida. Roger |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 18-11-2009 15:51
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
I know Katka uses Lyciella, that's why I suggested that she might elaborate. 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 18-11-2009 15:56
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Member Location: Posts: 5242 Joined: 17.07.08 |
Paul Beuk wrote: I know Katka uses Lyciella, that's why I suggested that she might elaborate. I see you are wearing your "clever" head today Paul It's dim up north.... Roger |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 18-11-2009 16:45
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Roger Thomason wrote: I lost the other ones... I see you are wearing your "clever" head today  (or should that be  , or  ?)
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Steve Gaimari |
Posted on 18-11-2009 19:20
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 Member Location: Posts: 169 Joined: 08.10.04 |
Here are the relevant taxa: Meiosimyza Hendel 1925 Lyciella Collin 1948 Lycia Robineau-Desvoidy 1830 Lycia R-D was preoccupied, so Lyciella was erected by Collin as a replacement name. Lyciella then is the valid name for the taxon, with its own author and date (independent of the author and date of the junior homonym Lycia). As such, for purposes of synonymy or determination of rank (genus/subgenus), Meiosimyza has priority. So Meiosimyza is the valid genus, and Lyciella is one of its subgenera. ICZN article 60.3 is clearest on this matter, stating that if a rejected junior homonym needs a new replacement name (i.e., if there is no available and valid synonym to use instead), this new name has its own author and date, which will then compete for priority with any other recognized synonym. This isn't something that is subject to "consensus" - calling Lyciella the senior name is simply incorrect. Of course one could refer to Lyciella and Meiosimyza as separate genera, but if they are subgenera of the same genus, Meiosimyza is the genus. Edited by Steve Gaimari on 18-11-2009 19:23 |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 18-11-2009 20:57
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
And since interpreting them as subgenera or separate genera depends on the worker it still comes to... "consensus".
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Steve Gaimari |
Posted on 19-11-2009 01:50
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Member Location: Posts: 169 Joined: 08.10.04 |
Paul Beuk wrote: And since interpreting them as subgenera or separate genera depends on the worker it still comes to... "consensus". Right you are! But I don't think anyone is claiming they are different genera. Steve Gaimari Plant Pest Diagnostics Lab, CDFA 3294 Meadowview Road Sacramento, CA 95832-1448, USA |
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| katerina dvorakova |
Posted on 27-11-2009 22:45
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 Member Location: Posts: 396 Joined: 25.03.08 |
oh! I am surprised, Steve. (Almost) nobody in Europe use Meiosimyza (except of Shatalkin), so I use Lyciella too (I am not a taxonomist of course). I will contact you by email for more detailed information. Katka |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 28-11-2009 11:25
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Please share this information with us all! I am sure more people than me are very interested! Viktor |
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| Steve Gaimari |
Posted on 30-11-2009 22:53
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Member Location: Posts: 169 Joined: 08.10.04 |
My previous post covers most of the issue. But I guess to simplify - the name Lycia R-D (1830) is a junior primary homonym of Lycia Hubner (1823). That makes Lycia an invalid name. Collin gave the new name Lyciella to this genus-group taxon in 1948. This was after Hendel (1925) had erected the genus Meiosimyza. The name of Hendel (1925) has priority over that of Collin (1948), because it was described first. For nomenclature, the priority is established by date of publication, not date of the taxon concept (i.e., of Lycia R-D). So, when Meiosimyza and Lyciella are considered to represent the same genus, Meiosimyza is the senior name for purposes of priority. So in the absence of dividing Meiosimyza into subgenera, Lyciella would be a simple junior synonym. But since Meiosimyza is divided into subgenera, Lyciella is a subgenus of Meiosimyza. The various databases (e.g., Fauna Europaea) have this particular item wrong, listing the species as Lyciella. The only way that Lyciella would be a valid genus name is if it did not contain Sapromyza platycephala (the type species of Meiosimyza) - in other words, if Lyciella and Meiosimyza were separate genera. |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 30-11-2009 23:24
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Thanks Steve, actually everything was of course very clear from your initial post (and I follow Shatalkin blindly myself). I just thought that it would be better to keep such an discussion "in the open" so that dedicated followers of Collin at last can let their darling Lyciella rest in peace!
Edited by viktor j nilsson on 30-11-2009 23:24 |
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| phil withers |
Posted on 30-11-2009 23:33
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Member Location: Posts: 521 Joined: 04.03.08 |
So the short answer is...I was right for once...hoorah ! |
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| Roger Thomason |
Posted on 30-11-2009 23:45
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Member Location: Posts: 5242 Joined: 17.07.08 |
phil withers wrote: So the short answer is...I was right for once...hoorah !  http://diptera.in...ost_116906 See you managed to escape from the Taxi (dropped you off safely)?...
Edited by Roger Thomason on 30-11-2009 23:57 |
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but don't see the image in the post.