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 Translation of Zetterstedt's original description of Odinia boletina/ornata
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 17-04-2010 18:01
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Hi y'all, I would love to get some help with my latin. The identity of Odinia boletina Zett./ ornata Zett. has been up for discussion several times in the forum. Jere Kahanpää has been telling us tha "ornata is the larger species with darkened crossvein and two equally strong bristles at the apex of the mid tibia" and "boletina is the smaller species with completely clear wings and unequally stron tibial bristles". Since I am deeply fascinated by Joh. Wilh. Zetterstedt and also by Odiniids, I've went to check his original description of O.boletina (As Milichia boletina, in Diptera Scandinaviaevol. 7, p.2721 [1848]). I have come to think that part of the confusion between these two species stems from someone misunderstanding the last part of the description, where O.boletina is compared to O. ornata. If this is taken as a description of O.ornata as opposed to boletina (which it really looks like if you look at the text superficially), confusion reigns. Otherwise, I think it is a pretty clear diagnosis supporting Jere's interpretations. Of course, someone should look at the Zetterstedt types, but I'd be a bit suprised if the description above doesn't match Zetterstedt's interpretation. My rough translation is as follows - please help me correct it! ------------ 3. M. Boletina: [head?] grey, epistoma white throughout length; antennae yellow, basal segments and spot on the top [of third segment] completely black; palpi and legs yellow, the latter with brown spotting; abdomen with 6 brown spots; wings clear, unspotted, black costal spot at tht apex of subcostal vein. ----- Dwells on mushrooms and on the trunks of living Populus tremula in Sweden not frequent in the middle of July; evidently I found 2 males and as many females in Östrogothia at Lärketorp and at Wadstena; in Gottlandia I have also caught male specimens (Prof Sahlberg has also communicated records from E Finland). M. ornata is very similar, but [M. boletina is] constantly twice smaller or less, and the transverse nerves differs in not being infuscated [in M. boletina]. Wings are clear, veins almost unpigmented, with only minute black spots at the crossing of the subcostal and costal veins. Rest of the body exactly as in M. ornata. Eyes in life reddish with coppery shine, in the middle with a purple transverse band. [EDIT]Updated according to Stephen R's comments Edited by viktor j nilsson on 21-04-2010 21:49 |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 20-04-2010 19:49
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Noone is any good at latin? Anyone? 
Edited by viktor j nilsson on 20-04-2010 19:50 |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 20-04-2010 20:35
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 Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
I am not...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 20-04-2010 20:38
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 Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
I'll check this text in Saturday.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 20-04-2010 20:41 |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 20-04-2010 21:08
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
 I'd appreciate it! |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 21-04-2010 10:10
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 Member Location: Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
I think I can help with the Latin. In the first paragraph 'palpis pedibusque flavis' means 'with the palps and legs (feet) yellow', so 'his' (the latter) refers to the legs, which are brown-spotted. The subject of the last paragraph is definitely M. boletina. ' Similar to M. ornata as an egg to an egg, but...' So you are right. Stephen. Edited by Stephen R on 21-04-2010 10:11 |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 21-04-2010 13:40
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Member Location: Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
Incidentally, 'inveni' and 'deprehendi' in the second paragraph mean 'I found' and 'I caught', so these are Z's own records. |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 21-04-2010 21:51
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Many thanks Stephen! I feel very much more confident now, and quite enthusiastic about learning more. |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 23-04-2010 21:20
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Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Stephen is right. I just point some more info... "pedibusque" In Latin the part "que" means the same as "is". Pedi is foot in Latin. And the plural is "pedibus". As it was well translated by Stephen. "with the palps and legs (feet) yellow". Just to complement... Colours in masculine; feminine and neutral genus. Flavus; flava; flavum- yellow albus; alba; album- white niger; nigra; nigrum- black ruber; rubra; rubrum- red cinereus ; cinerea; cinereum- grey |
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| Stephen R |
Posted on 24-04-2010 09:28
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Member Location: Posts: 2396 Joined: 12.06.09 |
jorgemotalmeida wrote: "pedibusque" In Latin the part "que" means the same as "is". Thanks for support Jorge. I think you meant to type 'and', not 'is', for '-que'. Pedibus is the ablative case - here indicating 'with' - of the plural of pes (= 'foot' in classical Latin but in the entomological context it refers to the whole leg). The case-endings are important in understanding Latin: the 'ae' (dative case) at the end of ornatae is what tells us that this is not the subject of the last paragraph but the thing to which the subject is being compared. Stephen. Edited by Stephen R on 24-04-2010 09:49 |
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| jorgemotalmeida |
Posted on 24-04-2010 11:00
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Member Location: Posts: 9295 Joined: 05.06.06 |
Yes, Stephen. You are right again. You know very well the Latin! I didn't have any lecture of this. In Astronomy it is very used (the Latin for name of the stars) the form Beta Draconis meaning the second star in brightness (usually..) belonging to the Draco constellation.. it is fun to know Latin! |
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| viktor j nilsson |
Posted on 24-04-2010 21:43
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Member Location: Posts: 203 Joined: 25.02.08 |
Thanks a lot to you both! Ablative case - that's something I'm having a hard time understanding, as it is so far from anything that we have in the Swedish language. Back to the books... |
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| Mark-uk |
Posted on 10-11-2011 20:31
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 Member Location: Posts: 791 Joined: 01.02.10 |
have you tried google translate? it says it does Latin, but cant speak as to how well? |
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