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Diptera.info » Family forums » Asilidae Forum
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Bulgarian Asilidae
Leif G
Photographed at Novo Hodzhvo, July 19th. Possible to ID?

Leif
 
jorgemotalmeida
wwozeerss!!! can you collect this for me?!
Could it be Saropogon or Molobratia? I do not know by sure.. But I would be more inclined to the former genus.
Edited by jorgemotalmeida on 07-09-2014 13:02
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/superegnum
Piluca_Alvarez
And what about Dasypogon? Dark legs and those marks on the abdomen are rather typical. Just thinking...

Jorge, I would rule out Molobratia Wink
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 18:11
 
jorgemotalmeida
indeed, I think Dasypogon is much better. Did you see the strong spur in the apical tibiae? Smile Feature for Dasypogoninae! So Molobratia and even Saropogon could never be!!
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/superegnum
Leif G
Thanks for comments. Unfortunately, this is the only shot I got before it flew away.

Leif
 
Piluca_Alvarez
Yes, I saw the nice spur Wink That's why I ruled out Molobratia (which looks different too). But also Saropogon shows the Dasypogoninae spur although usually not so well. The combination of looks, colour legs and abdominal pattern was what made me think of Dasypogon Wink

Leif, one shot and the fly takes off... I suffer from that too often Wink Wink Grin
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 07-09-2014 20:17
 
Quaedfliegh
Just to comment, both Molobratia and Saropogon belong to the Dasypogoninae and do have a similar spur on front tibiae. On this picture the spurs are clear for Molobratia: http://libellchen.deviantart.com/art/Molobratia-Teutonus-187984979

Molobratia has much thinner and longer legs and has red antennae.

In Engel Molobratia is described as Dasypogon teutonus!

On this picture.

The difference between Dasypogon and Saropogon is that the mystax in Dasypogon almost reaches the antennae and in Saropogon only coveres the lower part of the face. I think we can see that....this is a Saropogon species.


Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
Piluca_Alvarez
Reinoud, thanks for all the explanations Smile I see how that works now.

And I should keep my ugly mouth shut Grin Grin
 
Quaedfliegh
I still have some doubts though..: )
Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
jorgemotalmeida
wait... Molobratia is a Stepogoninae...
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/superegnum
Piluca_Alvarez
In Geller-Grimm keys it is treated as Dasypononinae and also in Engel. I guess due to the fact that it has indeed an apical spur in front tibiae as other Dasypogoninae, only that it is rudimentary. In other taxonomyc classifications, it appears in Stenopogoninae. I guess it all depends on the point of view Wink

Quaedfliegh wrote:
I still have some doubts though..: )


It shouldn't be consolation but it truely conforts me a bit Wink Wink Grin
Edited by Piluca_Alvarez on 08-09-2014 22:38
 
jorgemotalmeida
well, int the catalog of Iberian Diptera it appears as Stenopogoninae... I doubt that someone would rely only in the tibial spur for this split.
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/superegnum
Quaedfliegh
It appeared in a lot of lists in stenopogoninae (i Always wondered why, there is a reason but not yet clear to me : )) @ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ). At the moment i'm reading Torsten Dikow's phylogeny of the asilidae which is probably the most comprihensive study to date.
Link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1439609209000087

He places the Molobratiini in the Dasypogoninae as a tribe.

Cutting a corner.....

The split was made in the past based on the lack of spines on the ovipositor and the shape of sternite 8 by Lehr.

See page 103 Dikow. His study shows that Molobratia (Molobratiini as a tribe) is "positioned deeply in the Dasypogoninae".


Greetings,

Reinoud

Field guide to the robber flies of the Netherlands and Belgium: https://www.jeugdbondsuitgeverij.nl/product/field-guide-to-the-robberflies-of-the-netherlands-and-belgium/

https://www.nev.nl/diptera/
 
Mariastraat 12
Piluca_Alvarez
Quaedfliegh wrote:
@ Piluca, the spur is far from rudimentary! look at the picture in the link, the spurs are huge : ) "


Thanks, Reinoud! Smile Saw it now. Definitely it is a proper spur Wink Always learning something! Smile Smile
 
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