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 Sepsid-like pallopterid
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| pierred |
Posted on 14-11-2019 10:32
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 Member Location: Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Hello, [Click on the picture to get a better resolution. Click again to come back.]  Pierre Duhem : France : Bessans : 73480 : 05/08/2019 Altitude : 1774 m - Taille : 5-7 mm Réf. : 243384  Pierre Duhem : France : Bessans : 73480 : 05/08/2019 Altitude : 1774 m - Taille : 5-7 mm Réf. : 243385 It looks like a sepsid, but with this brown scutellum and the brown segments at apex of the abdomen, it doesn't fit. I searched also in the usual families with decorated wings, but with no result. Can somebody give me an orientation? Thanks in advance. Edited by pierred on 15-11-2019 09:37 Pierre Duhem |
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| Ectemnius |
Posted on 14-11-2019 13:14
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Member Location: Posts: 845 Joined: 22.11.11 |
Hello pierred, Actually it is a Pallopteridae. Looks like Palloptera usta. Kind regards, Ectemnius |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 14-11-2019 13:16
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 Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
It is a pallopterid, but I have difficulty in finding a species with glossy black mesonotum, yellow scutellum, glossy black abdomen but terminal segments again yellow and this wing pattern. Did you collect it?
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| pierred |
Posted on 14-11-2019 13:34
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Member Location: Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
No, I didn't collect it. Note that this is in the French Alps, rather high (1775 masl). Pierre Duhem |
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| Xylosoma |
Posted on 18-11-2019 08:30
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Member Location: Posts: 43 Joined: 14.10.19 |
This is Temnosira ambusta. Thorax coloration should be even variable as in T. saltuum, vary from orange to black and typically shining. Nice observation, I have seen only single specimen in many years. Xylo |
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| pierred |
Posted on 18-11-2019 09:47
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Member Location: Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
Thanks a lot. Paul, Do you want the pictures in the gallery? Edited by pierred on 18-11-2019 09:53 Pierre Duhem |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 18-11-2019 20:20
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Of course 
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| pierred |
Posted on 18-11-2019 20:44
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Member Location: Posts: 1413 Joined: 21.04.05 |
I'll do it.
Pierre Duhem |
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| libor |
Posted on 18-11-2019 22:01
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Member Location: Posts: 1266 Joined: 30.05.09 |
Noooo! Ambusta has orange thorax with black longitudinal lines. Ectemnius is right, this is Toxoneura usta, a species of cold habitats in medium and higher altitudes. Note: probably living on trees and shrubs above the ground (unpublished). Libor |
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| Jan Willem |
Posted on 18-11-2019 22:13
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 Member Location: Posts: 2122 Joined: 24.07.04 |
As far as I remember T. usta doesn't have such a shiny mesonotum and doesn't have a yellowish scutellum. I think Xylo is right! Seems like the coloration of the mesonotum of T. ambusta being rather variable. So I'm not at all convinced about this being T. usta!
Jan Willem van Zuijlen |
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| libor |
Posted on 18-11-2019 22:24
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Member Location: Posts: 1266 Joined: 30.05.09 |
Oh, really? I know no paper about black mesonotum in ambusta... Can I get any paper with this note? If Xylo and Jan are right, I am very sorry for my previous message! Libor |
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| Xylosoma |
Posted on 19-11-2019 07:54
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Member Location: Posts: 43 Joined: 14.10.19 |
I have in my collection specimens of T. ambusta with 4 longitudinal black lines on mesonotum, with 2 submedian stripes and outer ones broken at suture into spots, and with a pair of enlarged and broadly fused stripes leaving only a small orange midline. The shown specimen is only a little bit darker with central disc of mesonotom completly black. No doupts that T. ambusta is variable in coloration of mesonotum. Frons of the figured specimen is typically orange accept occuput, in P. usta only the anterior part is orange but dark and thickly gray dusted posteriorly. Xylo |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 19-11-2019 13:09
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
Ozerov does not mention the variation in his 2009 review of the Russian Pallopteridae. However, in his key the species appears next to shatalkini that does have an entirely glossy black mesonotum and similar wing pattern. Makes you wonder...
Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Ectemnius |
Posted on 19-11-2019 13:45
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Member Location: Posts: 845 Joined: 22.11.11 |
Well, I dont know anything about Pallopteridae. So I just suggested a name. Jan-Willem and Xylosoma obviously do know their Pallopteridae. That brings me to the following: I thought that Temnosira and Palloptera were synonymised? They are on the Dutch checklist... Does anyone know where that was done? And is there any key available anywhere for Pallopteridae. I have the Morge and Ozerov papers. Both are annoying to use. Kind regards, Ectemnius |
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| Paul Beuk |
Posted on 19-11-2019 16:10
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Super Administrator Location: Posts: 19208 Joined: 11.05.04 |
The online checklist of Dutch Diptera uses Palloptera only. Ozerov placed Temnosira as synonym of Toxoneura. I think the genera shift into and out of synonymy depending on who you use as authority. I am not certain there are many formal synonymizations or resurrections... 'Some of us' are still trying to say something sensible about the validity of the different genera but unfortunately one of us had a physical mishap and is only just now getting up and running again. I hope to get us up and running again early next year. Paul - - - - Paul Beuk on https://diptera.info |
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| Jan Willem |
Posted on 19-11-2019 17:16
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Member Location: Posts: 2122 Joined: 24.07.04 |
Well to be honest, I also don't know a publication mentioning a black mesonotum in T. ambusta (or P. ambusta :-) ). However, I also don't know a publication mentioning a shining mesonotum in T. usta. It's a pity we don't have more details on the specimen.
Jan Willem van Zuijlen |
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| Xylosoma |
Posted on 19-11-2019 17:17
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Member Location: Posts: 43 Joined: 14.10.19 |
Yes, Ozerov discussed Temnosira as junior synonym of Toxoneura. This synonymy apparently is not in use. Papp redefined Pallopteridae in 2011 and gives Temmnosira and Toxoneura as distinct genera. At the same time, he reinstated Eurygnathomyiidae as separate family which does not establish in recent publications or Fauna Europae. Diptera.org/diptera.dk seems to be offline today to check this out. Ozerov described his shatalkini from Altai in the genus Temnosira. Unfortunately, I don’t have this paper. In his publication to Russian Pallopteridae he somehow forgotten this fact in the key and did not set the authors (his) name in parentheses. The figures of wings of T. ambusta and T. shatalkini aren’t showing any differences. The main question is: Who is going to Alps next summer to collect some more ambusta with complete dark disc of mesonotum 😉 . I have collected all my described colour variations in France. Xylo |
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but don't see the image in the post.