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In the South of Germany I photographed this big fly on July 16th. I wonder whether it is a common deer fly (in Germany called "Rinderbremse" ). May be it is something special like Pangonius micans - which is not noticed for this area up to now. Who can identify the fly?
Thank you for helping,
Jutta

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Perhaps it's just me, but I don't see any picture in your message? Without a pic or a description it may be a tad difficult to identify.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Jere

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In the South of Germany I photographed this big fly on July 16th. I wonder whether it is a common deer fly (in Germany called "Rinderbremse" ). May be it is something special like Pangonius micans - which is not noticed for this area up to now. Who can identify the fly?
Thank you for helping,
Jutta

I'm sure, some time the picture will be seen ....

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second image - same object

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Thanks for your message and interest...

Best wishes,
Jutta

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Hi.

Yeah, it definitely looks like a Pangonius, but I am definitely not overly familiar with the genus. Hope you can find someone to confirm this very interesting record.

Jere

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Quite a surprise: although I cannot see the characteristic antennae and long proboscis (did you ?), I have no doubt that this is indeed Pangonius micans.
Kroeber (in Tierwelt Deutschlands) mentioned just a few records from Southern Germany. Given the global warming and extension of southern species to the north, micans was a species to look for in southern Germany. Nevertheless, my congratulations with this remarkable find !

Theo Zeegers

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Hello, Theo Zeegers!

Many thanks for your help with this deer fly!
For the fact I'm absolutlety no specialist with flys in any way (I'm interested merely in butterflies, therefore I visited this Southern German area) I cannot answer to your question concerning proboscis - (I even don't know which part of the insect is called so).

May be a further picture of the fly can answer your question?

Best wishes,
Jutta

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Hello again,

could you tell me which locations Kroeber in "Tierwelt Deutschlands" mentioned?
Many thanks,
Jutta

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Oke,


Kroeber, 1932 - Tierwelt Deutschlands, reads in translation:
"The presence of micans in Germany is of great interest from a zoogeographical point of view, since the genus is predominantly tropical with only a few species just present in southern Europe [TZ: Kroeber considers, apparently, the genus Philoliche as belonging to Pangonius. The genus Pangonius in its current more limited sense is typical mediterrenean and hardly tropical ].The mos northern locality was Lyon so far. On the Kaiserstuhl was P. micans in hot summers not rare on south-exposed heathlike grasslands, north of Ihringen, where also Mantis occurs. ... According to Leininger (Verh. Natw. Ver. Karsruhe (1922, 28, p.86), 1 female from Luetzelberg near Sasbach am Kaiserstuhl on Centaurea on 11.xi.19 and 1 male between Ihringen and Achkarren on Eupatorium 10.ix.1919. Otherwise: Spain, southern France".

I add that the micans is not present on the recent checklist for Switzerland. A probably quite accurate impression of the distrubution can be seen at www.faunaeur.org


So, where did YOU see this Pangonius ?


Theo Zeegers

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Byt he way, proboscis, in short, means 'tongue'. Pangonius has a very long tongue and is therefore quite often mistaken for a Bombyliidae.


Theo

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Hello, Theo!

It's nearly the same place mentioned in Kroeber where I saw micans: Tuniberg is part of the Soutern German Kaiserstuhl. From Merdingen/Tuniberg to the Kroeber places is less than 10 kilometers by air and it's in the neighbourhood of Ihringen.

It's remarkable that the last observations there should have been in 1932 (or even before) - or are there further proofs for the last 20 years?

Im ?brigen h?tten Sie mir den Kroeber-Text nicht zu ?bersetzen brauchen, er ist vermutlich in Deutsch?! :-)

German dipterologists now have been informed of my new proof. Many thanks for your help and informations!
Jutta

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Dear Jutta,

I didn't think for one moment that my German was better than yours, the translations was a curtisy to other members not able to understand German. Moreover, I got rid of the umblauts in this way.

The expert in Germany on Tabanidae is Wolfgang Schacht in Munich.

By the way, the fact that I do not know of any recent record in Germany does not prove they do not exist. If Wolfgang does not know, that could be considered proof.

Thanks for sharing this, in all cases, nice find.


Theo

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Hello, Theo,

thank you so much for the name of a German dipterologist. I think this address sometime will be very useful to me - may be there are further special flies in my photo collection of Kaiserstuhl ...

Best wishes to you - and many thanks!

Jutta

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Dear Jutta,

Wolfgang Schacht is working at the Zoologische Staatssammlung M?nchen. I think, he will be very interested in your finding.

greetings
Gisela