Diptera.info

Posted by cosmln on 16-11-2007 23:37

jorgemotalmeida wrote:
ok... I slept only 2 hours today.

It is Noctuidae - Noctua pronuba - probably.

Hi,

I'm almost sure that this is not Noctuidae and for sure not Noctua pronuba.
larva of N.pronuba can be seen here:
http://www.leps.i...aPronu.htm
is not looking completely different from pyralids or tortricids i have reared (will be useful to know something more about: size, host plant if possible, was between leaves in something like a tube or...). but usually pyralids and tortricids larva are more slender... but i can say that this is not a very healthy larva

cosmln

Posted by Sundew on 17-11-2007 14:40

You overlooked that Zcuc told us the host plant: it's Chrozophora obliqua, an annual of the giant Spurge family (Euphorbiaceae), subfamily Acalyphoideae. Though the members of this subfamily usually have no latex, they nevertheless contain many toxic substances and should thus be not very attractive to predatory insects. Chrozophora still upgrades its defence by the stellate hairs that densely cover the plant surface. There are, however, caterpillars that use secondary plant metabolites to become toxic themselves and be then avoided by birds or other enemies. Fischeria, though, was obviously not impressed.
I googled the combination "Chrozophora obliqua /Noctuidae" and came across an article that I unfortunately could not open in full length. In this paper, somewhere the Black Cutworm, Agrotis ipsilon, was mentioned. In an internet paper on the species there is a description of the caterpillar that fits quite well:

In appearance, the larva is rather uniformly colored on the dorsal and lateral surfaces, ranging from light gray or gray-brown to nearly black. On some individuals, the dorsal region is slightly lighter or brownish in color, but the larva lacks a distinct dorsal band. Ventrally, the larva tends to be lighter in color. Close examination of the larval epidermis reveals that this species bears numerous dark, coarse granules over most of its body. The head is brownish with numerous dark spots.

(http://edis.ifas....)
The given pictures are not very good but also bear a certain resemblance to Zcuc's caterpillar. So, if Noctuidae, Agrotis would be my choice.
This was the comment of a non-lepidopterologist who finds the subject exciting!
Sundew

Posted by cosmln on 17-11-2007 19:27

Sundew wrote:
You overlooked that Zcuc told us the host plant: it's Chrozophora obliqua, an annual of the giant Spurge family (Euphorbiaceae), subfamily Acalyphoideae. Though the members of this subfamily usually have no latex, they nevertheless contain many toxic substances and should thus be not very attractive to predatory insects. Chrozophora still upgrades its defence by the stellate hairs that densely cover the plant surface. There are, however, caterpillars that use secondary plant metabolites to become toxic themselves and be then avoided by birds or other enemies. Fischeria, though, was obviously not impressed.
I googled the combination "Chrozophora obliqua /Noctuidae" and came across an article that I unfortunately could not open in full length. In this paper, somewhere the Black Cutworm, Agrotis ipsilon, was mentioned. In an internet paper on the species there is a description of the caterpillar that fits quite well:

Agrotis larva usually feed on roots or leaves that are on the soil (at least A.ipsilon for sure).

cosmln

Posted by Sundew on 17-11-2007 21:00

That's true. Here is another citation from the internet article mentioned above:

Black cutworm is not considered to be a climbing cutworm, most of the feeding occurring at soil level. However, larvae will feed aboveground until about the fourth instar. Larvae can consume over 400 sq cm of foliage during their development, but over 80% occurs during the terminal instar, and about 10% in the instar immediately preceding the last. Thus, little foliage loss occurs during the early stages of development. Once the fourth instar is attained, larvae can do considerable damage by severing young plants, and a larva may cut several plants in a single night.

If you have a look at the Chrozophora obliqua pictures in the internet, you see that it is a partly prostrate herb that grows close to the ground!

Sundew

Posted by zcuc on 18-11-2007 08:28

Some help with caterpillar, maybe it'll help.

Found hiding inside a folder leaf. was fairly agile when walking.
It has 5 rows of dots in each side of the body. marked as 1-5. row 3 had empty dots. row 2 consist of 2 small dots. on the back it has several rows of green colouration dark and light. each black dot had a bristle came out of it.

Edited by zcuc on 18-11-2007 08:30

Posted by cosmln on 18-11-2007 10:23

zcuc wrote:
Some help with caterpillar, maybe it'll help.

Found hiding inside a folder leaf. was fairly agile when walking.
It has 5 rows of dots in each side of the body. marked as 1-5. row 3 had empty dots. row 2 consist of 2 small dots. on the back it has several rows of green colouration dark and light. each black dot had a bristle came out of it.

this ...
"
Found hiding inside a folder leaf. was fairly agile when walking...
"

is characteristic for Pyralidae/Tortricidae (also the form) so... i remain there. i don't have a guide for larva of this group just the one i have breed and i have not breed something similar.

cosmln

Posted by Sundew on 18-11-2007 20:54

I agree that this behaviour is typical for larvae of tortrix moths and snout moths. Apart from the still lacking information on the caterpillar's size, it would be interesting to know whether the leaf was folded artificially by activity of the animal. I am afraid, however, that this case can be solved only by an Israeli entomologist who knows which butterfly larvae feed on Chrozophora obliqua. Much to my regret I have to quit here...

Sundew

Posted by cosmln on 23-11-2007 21:13

#11

crex wrote:
I have asked around (K. Silvonen and Yahoo group UKMoths), but no solution to this mystery so far. I guess one should ask the lepidoptera experts in Israel who are acquainted with this fauna.

i think will be easier if he will try to search for some larva on that plant and raise them. ussualy this kind of larva is not so rare (Pyralidae or Tortricidae), just search for new folded leaves, maybe he will find even with pupa inside.

cosmln