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 Psychodidae: Clogmia or Lepiseodina latipennis
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| Liliane D |
Posted on 11-04-2022 12:25
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Member Location: Posts: 613 Joined: 16.08.17 |
Hello, In the south of France, on April 10, 2022, on a branch of Fennel. Body a little more than 3 mm. Wings size : 3 mm Thank you for your help in identification Edited by Liliane D on 11-04-2022 23:05 |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 15:01
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
Lepiseodina latipennis, according to me. Clogmia mostly isn't used any more for this species, Clogmia in Europe only includes albipunctata. Other Clogmia's now are in Lepiseodina. Latipennis is my identification for this taxon, but the original description isn't very good and the type specimen is in Naples and that museum does not react on questions. Nevertheless it is clearly another taxon than Lepiseodina rothschildi. There are pictures from Italy, Spain, France (south and north), England (south) and Netherlands. So give it the name latipennis. When that turns out to be wrong it's a new species for science. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 15:02
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
It lives in wet holes of trees. So have a look for that and watch if they do some egg laying or so. Can you give me the exact location of the find? |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 15:21
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
Lepiseodina is used for old world flies now? I guess I'll stop telling people they are only in America. I'd have called this one Clogmia latipennis. Is there a document that clarifies this? Also, I find resources that say this species occurs only in Italy, but it seems to be found in France and Great Britain as well. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 15:27
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
The problem is that Fauna Europea uses Clogmia, but that site has not been updated for a very long time. European specialists use Lepiseodina. There is no article clarifying this! My identification is based on the black head, body color and wing length, both differing from L. rothschildi. For Clogmia a revision is in the making (not by me). |
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| Liliane D |
Posted on 11-04-2022 16:00
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Member Location: Posts: 613 Joined: 16.08.17 |
Many thanks, Indeed, the European species named Clogmia latipennis would be similar to Lepiseodina conspicua. And another species Lepiseodina, close to Clogmia latipennis would be present in Italy! Difficult to find out ... To answer the geographical question. I saw it in my garden in the south of France (Sardan in the Gard), a garrigue type, very dry in summer. In this period, April, there is humidity and if the fly lays eggs in the wet holes of trees, it has infinite possibilities in my garden, mostly wooded. I found it on Fennel, in a half-shade, half-sun area, under a canopy of oaks, arbutus and juniper (in french,chênes, arbousiers and genévriers). There are several cotoneasters in this space and a few Fennel plants. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 16:54
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
Liliane D wrote: And another species Lepiseodina, close to Clogmia latipennis would be present in Italy! What do you mean? There are pictures of latipennis in Italy. Are there other ones?? And there is an undescribed small species in the Balkan. American sonspicua is very much like European latipennis and rothschildi, so it would be strange to have some of them in Lepiseodina and others in Clogmia! |
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| Liliane D |
Posted on 11-04-2022 17:05
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Member Location: Posts: 613 Joined: 16.08.17 |
It is on this document that the species I mention are mentioned: https://www-inaturalist-org.translate.goog/posts/45442-psychodidae-notes?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=fr&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=sc What I don't understand is the nomenclature currently applied in Europe and specifically for the fly I publish here. Should we say Clogmia latipennis or Lepiseodina latipennis? |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 17:29
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
That document looks like notes I put together some time ago. Since I created the document, iNaturalist move images, hence they are not showing. I've not done the work of updating the links. I'm not a Psychodidae expert. These are just notes from research I've done over some period of time. Regarding pictures of latipennis outside of Italy, Just do a search for Clogmia latipennis on iNaturalist, and you will find others outside of Italy. At least one has commentary from someone other than me that they are found in GB. |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 17:37
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
Seems the comment I was referring to was your comment, the last comment here: https://www.inatu...s/41317454 |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 17:44
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
It looks like Jezek separates Clogmia and Lepiseodina based on symmetry (Clogmia) or asymmetry (Lepiseodina) of the genitalia. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 18:43
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
Liliane D wrote: What I don't understand is the nomenclature currently applied in Europe and specifically for the fly I publish here. Should we say Clogmia latipennis or Lepiseodina latipennis? Specialists now use Lepiseodina latipennis (and the smaller lookalike L. rothschildi) (plus L. tristis). Clogmia is outdated for these species. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 18:44
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
victorengel wrote: It looks like Jezek separates Clogmia and Lepiseodina based on symmetry (Clogmia) or asymmetry (Lepiseodina) of the genitalia. Correct I think. I have not been in contact with Jezek, but with other specialists about these Lepiseodina species. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 18:48
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
Liliane D wrote: To answer the geographical question. I saw it in my garden in the south of France (Sardan in the Gard), There has been an observation in Montpellier, close to your location! See iNaturalst. |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 19:01
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
OK. On iNaturalist, there should be only one node for each of these species. I thought they were under Clogmia for European species. Perhaps they need to be flagged for a taxon swap. One issue I see especially with sites like iNat that cater to the general public is that characters depending on dissection or viewing fine details do not help. It would be good if gross characters could be used primarily, if possible to separate a species. I believe this is possible with many species that are nevertheless separated "officially" by details such as genetalia. Of course, sometimes that cannot be avoided. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 19:16
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
I have no idea how a taxon can be renamed in iNaturalsit. You? On several European sites it has been updated already, it should be nice when iNaturalist would follow. |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 19:58
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
Yes, I will do it. What you do is you click the species link so you go to the page for the species. On the screen there is a small box with a gear that says Curation. You click on that and select Flag for curation. That presents a form where you can give comments to back up what you want to happen. That also starts a thread that others can comment on. Here is a link to the flag. https://www.inatu...ags/568245 Feel free to add comments and/or links to documentation. |
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| victorengel |
Posted on 11-04-2022 19:59
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Member Location: Posts: 95 Joined: 20.12.20 |
After some research and discussion, if the curator deems the change is appropriate, they initiate the taxon swap. A curator needs to do that. I'm not a curator. |
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| weia |
Posted on 11-04-2022 22:17
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Member Location: Posts: 360 Joined: 10.07.11 |
victorengel wrote: After some research and discussion I have added everything I know to that discussion page. |
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| Liliane D |
Posted on 11-04-2022 22:57
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Member Location: Posts: 613 Joined: 16.08.17 |
Thank you for all these precisions, Apparently, the taxonomic reference in France (TAXREF) has not yet validated the change of genus and the identification Clogmia latipennis is only valid. I don't know what is the situation in other European countries. |
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but don't see the image in the post.
